[OpenStack Foundation] [openstack-dev] [board][tc][all] One Platform – Containers/Bare Metal? (Re: Board of Directors Meeting)

Fox, Kevin M Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov
Tue Apr 12 19:48:30 UTC 2016

I think part of the problem is containers are mostly orthogonal to vms/bare metal. Containers are a package for a single service. Multiple can run on a single vm/bare metal host. Orchestration like Kubernetes comes in to turn a pool of vm's/bare metal into a system that can easily run multiple containers.

So, rather then concern itself with supporting launching through a COE and through Nova, which are two totally different code paths, OpenStack advanced services like Trove could just use a Magnum COE and have a UI that asks which existing Magnum COE to launch in, or alternately kick off the "Launch new Magnum COE" workflow in horizon, then follow up with the Trove launch workflow. Trove then would support being able to use containers, users could potentially pack more containers onto their vm's then just Trove, and it still would work with both Bare Metal and VM's the same way since Magnum can launch on either. I'm afraid supporting both containers and non container deployment with Trove will be a large effort with very little code sharing. It may be easiest to have a flag version where non container deployments are upgraded to containers then non container support is dropped.

As for the app-catalog use case, the app-catalog project (http://apps.openstack.org) is working on some of that.

From: Joshua Harlow [harlowja at fastmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 12:16 PM
To: Flavio Percoco; OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Cc: foundation at lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [OpenStack Foundation] [board][tc][all] One Platform – Containers/Bare Metal? (Re: Board of Directors Meeting)

Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 11/04/16 18:05 +0000, Amrith Kumar wrote:
>> Adrian, thx for your detailed mail.
>> Yes, I was hopeful of a silver bullet and as we’ve discussed before (I
>> think it
>> was Vancouver), there’s likely no silver bullet in this area. After that
>> conversation, and some further experimentation, I found that even if
>> Trove had
>> access to a single Compute API, there were other significant
>> complications
>> further down the road, and I didn’t pursue the project further at the
>> time.
> Adrian, Amrith,
> I've spent enough time researching on this area during the last month
> and my
> conclusion is pretty much the above. There's no silver bullet in this
> area and
> I'd argue there shouldn't be one. Containers, bare metal and VMs differ
> in such
> a way (feature-wise) that it'd not be good, as far as deploying
> databases goes,
> for there to be one compute API. Containers allow for a different
> deployment
> architecture than VMs and so does bare metal.

Just some thoughts from me, but why focus on the
compute/container/baremetal API at all?

I'd almost like a way that just describes how my app should be
interconnected, what is required to get it going, and the features
and/or scheduling requirements for different parts of those app.

To me it feels like this isn't a compute API or really a heat API but
something else. Maybe it's closer to the docker compose API/template
format or something like it.

Perhaps such a thing needs a new project. I'm not sure, but it does feel
like that as developers we should be able to make such a thing that
still exposes the more advanced functionality of the underlying API so
that it can be used if really needed...

Maybe this is similar to an app-catalog, but that doesn't quite feel
like it's the right thing either so maybe somewhere in between...

IMHO I'd be nice to have a unified story around what this thing is, so
that we as a community can drive (as a single group) toward that, maybe
this is where the product working group can help and we as a developer
community can also try to unify behind...

P.S. name for project should be 'silver' related, ha.


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