[OpenStack Foundation] [Women-of-openstack] [OpenStack][Women of OpenStack] Kick-off Meeting Info

APlimpton aplimpton at gmail.com
Fri Sep 4 02:31:51 UTC 2015

Hi Jeremy,

As I stated earlier "To be clear that doesn't mean we are discarding the
current tools or impeding communication, indeed part of the conversation
was devoted to how to help people move past technical barriers to using the
most popular OpenStack tools (IRC, Gerrit etc)."

We seem to be in agreement that more can and should be done to help with
tool adoption. We should build on that common goal of reducing the
technical friction. Increased visibility of the Upstream Training is a
great idea. I also think there could be updating of content around getting
set up with OpenStack tools that would greatly benefit everyone. While you
phrased it as "fear of new tools", most new people I've worked mainly
exhibit frustration and annoyance at how difficult setup is compared to
more modern options and do not enjoy the limitations of the system. Making
setup easier and educating them on the value of using an older system I
suspect would help lessen their dissatisfaction. I think our
two groups should partner on setting and delivering small, specific goals
that would benefit the community and in particular assist with the
on-boarding and retention of new OpenStack members -- particularly the ones
who are in the minority demographics.

We disagree that the Women of OpenStack group should clearly define the
other barriers with the tools, particularly IRC, and see what can be done
to remove them -- up to and including investigating other tools. If I
understand what you are saying, you see our attempt to identify and
ameliorate those pain points as absolutely leading to "a push to alternative
tools and communication channels will only serve to alienate already
marginalized groups within our community, further dividing us."

The women of OpenStack are part of the marginalized groups within the
community and this team is seeking ways to bridge those gaps not widen
them. There is no intent to push alternatives into the community. However
there is an interest in knowing what tools might better suit our diverse
needs and communication styles.  As you mentioned there is "a long-standing
tradition evolved through decades of trial and error" about the best tools.
It is very likely that the current tools will stand up to the scrutiny of
what works best, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look at options,
examine what works and what could work better in order to ensure that we
are using the best tools and processes to be inclusive and welcoming to
minorities in order to move them from being marginalized to being

I look forward to the great things our two groups can do together.


On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Eoghan Glynn <eglynn at redhat.com> wrote:

> > > One of the points of this group is to identify what are the
> > > barriers women face and how can we help. Women brought up concerns
> > > about IRC as being a barrier from a technical and group
> > > interaction standpoint. We are evaluating the best options to
> > > address those concerns.
> > [...]
> >
> > I'd be thrilled to work out ways we can make IRC and mailing lists
> > more welcoming and usable for everyone. I worry that a push to
> > alternative tools and communication channels will only serve to
> > alienate already marginalized groups within our community, further
> > dividing us.
> Exactly.
> Thanks Jeremy for articulating that crucial aspect so clearly.
> Cheers,
> Eoghan
> _______________________________________________
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> Foundation at lists.openstack.org
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