[openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Hello everyone, My name is Pierre and I'm a proud OpenStacker since 3 years now. I'm not a dev, I'm a pure ops. For 3 years, my job has been to make OpenStack works, and everybody knows that it's a fulltime job. I think my company do a lot for the OpenStack adoption in France. We are (a big) part of a french government project based on OpenStack. Today, production applications are running on OpenStack. It's the first private cloud in the french government. We also work for one of the biggest retailer in the world, in a huge project OpenStack-based project. We are about 10 Ops folks working on these projects. We also co-organise one meetup a month in Paris ( http://www.meetup.com/fr-FR/OpenStack-France/), welcoming 100 people each time. We spend a lot of time for the french OpenStack community, and we love it! "We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this. Today, I'm booking flights for Austin. I'm happy to be able to attend every summit as I can afford flight tickets and hotel, with money earned from OpenStack jobs! But I have to admit that I'm very very (very) very angry at the OpenStack foundation when I have to pay from $600 to $1000 my Summit tickets. At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program". No. That's not a good solution, because we don't want to beg for something we deserve! It's not a money issue, everything is about recognition. Also, there is a selection for admission. What kind of metrics are used to say yes or no? I think there is an easy solution, using local ambassadors to measure the events and talk to events organizer. There is not so many people... Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N. My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits?? I know that there is no metric to measure Ops work for OpenStack project. If we use surveys, lots of OpenStack in production environments will suddenly appear by magic. To be honest, I don't have a magic solution. I'm still thinking about it… If you have any idea, feel free. We are all OpenStack, not only Developers. There is something like Dev <-> Users in the logo, right? And what about people helping local user groups? -- Pierre FREUND Proud OpenStacker
Hello Pierre. On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ... Christian.
Hi Pierre, I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here. I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit. Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote:
Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Hi Pierre, We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit. Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that. The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there. Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community. I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants. Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step? Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Dear Pierre and Ops Community, My name is Edgar Magana and I am of the three members of the User Committee (UC) [1]. One of the goals that we have in mind is to formalize the role and recognition of operators within the OpenStack community, as Lauren has briefly mentioned in her email. We have an initial draft of the formal proposal that we are going to make it available to everybody no later that in a couple of days from today. I wanted to make sure that you and the ops community are aware of User Committee and the work that we are doing. Please, consider to attend our IRC meetings [2]. The User Committee references: https://www.openstack.org/foundation/user-committee/ https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee We are taking into account your feedback and please provide your input as soon as we distribute the recognition proposal via the mailing lists. Thank you so much, Edgar Magana, Cloud Operations Architect Workday, Inc. On 3/1/16, 12:36 PM, "Lauren Sell" <lauren@openstack.org> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Thank you Lauren and Edgar for the positive feedbacks! Cheers, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 1:15 AM Edgar Magana <edgar.magana@workday.com> wrote:
Dear Pierre and Ops Community,
My name is Edgar Magana and I am of the three members of the User Committee (UC) [1]. One of the goals that we have in mind is to formalize the role and recognition of operators within the OpenStack community, as Lauren has briefly mentioned in her email. We have an initial draft of the formal proposal that we are going to make it available to everybody no later that in a couple of days from today. I wanted to make sure that you and the ops community are aware of User Committee and the work that we are doing. Please, consider to attend our IRC meetings [2].
The User Committee references: https://www.openstack.org/foundation/user-committee/ https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee
We are taking into account your feedback and please provide your input as soon as we distribute the recognition proposal via the mailing lists.
Thank you so much,
Edgar Magana, Cloud Operations Architect Workday, Inc.
On 3/1/16, 12:36 PM, "Lauren Sell" <lauren@openstack.org> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt < christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others. So does this free pass thing stop at operators? What about contributors who don’t develop or operate, there's a tonne of them. It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution. Cheers Tristan
-----Original Message----- From: Lauren Sell [mailto:lauren@openstack.org] Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 7:37 AM To: Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> Cc: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Tristan, I do still in favor of the free passes and not I personally believe that it should not stop at operators. Please, tell me what other contributors should we include that don’t operate/use neither develop? As the email indicates, we want to be inclusive not exclusive. Edgar On 3/2/16, 6:07 AM, "Tristan Goode" <tristan@aptira.com> wrote:
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others.
So does this free pass thing stop at operators? What about contributors who don’t develop or operate, there's a tonne of them.
It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution.
Cheers Tristan
-----Original Message----- From: Lauren Sell [mailto:lauren@openstack.org] Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 7:37 AM To: Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> Cc: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Let me fix my email, not sure what is going on with me this morning. “I am still in favor of the free passes. I do not believe that it should stop at operators" Sorry for the confusion. Edgar On 3/2/16, 7:35 AM, "Edgar Magana" <edgar.magana@workday.com> wrote:
Tristan,
I do still in favor of the free passes and not I personally believe that it should not stop at operators. Please, tell me what other contributors should we include that don’t operate/use neither develop? As the email indicates, we want to be inclusive not exclusive.
Edgar
On 3/2/16, 6:07 AM, "Tristan Goode" <tristan@aptira.com> wrote:
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others.
So does this free pass thing stop at operators? What about contributors who don’t develop or operate, there's a tonne of them.
It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution.
Cheers Tristan
-----Original Message----- From: Lauren Sell [mailto:lauren@openstack.org] Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 7:37 AM To: Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> Cc: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
For a start and outside of any technical space, I know plenty of meetup organisers and co-ordinators that aren't developers or operators. There's been at least a dozen in the AU group alone, all working as actual volunteers in their own time. If we want to keep it to the technical (exclusive, but what the hell) Do testers get free tickets? How about bug submitters? Wouldn't it be more inclusive to broadcast that any type of contribution is welcome to apply for a free ticket? It's totally exclusive to say only types A, B and C can apply. Not everything can be put into objective terms. Thankfully. Cheers Tristan
-----Original Message----- From: Edgar Magana [mailto:edgar.magana@workday.com] Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2016 2:36 AM To: Tristan Goode <tristan@aptira.com>; community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Tristan,
I do still in favor of the free passes and not I personally believe that it should not stop at operators. Please, tell me what other contributors should we include that don’t operate/use neither develop? As the email indicates, we want to be inclusive not exclusive.
Edgar
On 3/2/16, 6:07 AM, "Tristan Goode" <tristan@aptira.com> wrote:
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others.
So does this free pass thing stop at operators? What about contributors who don’t develop or operate, there's a tonne of them.
It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution.
Cheers Tristan
-----Original Message----- From: Lauren Sell [mailto:lauren@openstack.org] Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2016 7:37 AM To: Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> Cc: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
Hi Pierre,
We’ve been talking about a way to recognize operators at the Summit and in the community for quite a while. It is of course more difficult to define the criteria for a contributing operator than someone who contributes code or documentation, but it’s certainly worth figuring out, even if we don’t land on the exact right formula the first time. And it’s not too late for qualifying operators to get some kind of signifier on their badges for the Austin Summit.
Just as the Technical Committee decides the criteria and maintains the list of ATCs, it would be most appropriate for the User Committee to define the criteria and administer the program for active operators and contributors under their working group structure. Tom has been working with the User Committee to start defining that criteria, and I believe there were some discussions about it at the Ops Mid-Cycle a few weeks ago. A representative from the User Committee should be circulating an email with next steps on the operator’s mailing list any day now. We have not done a great job communicating that process or our intentions to date, and I take responsibility for that.
The idea is to define the criteria and make the badge signifier happen in Austin, and then determine if/how we can offer discounted registration for qualifying operators in Barcelona. That decision will be based on the number of operators that meet that criteria and whether we can absorb those costs, as well as the discussions happening in parallel about evolving the design summit (which may impact free ATC registration at the main event). In the meantime, we continue to offer users who attend the Ops Mid-Cycles free codes to attend the next Summit. Were you able to make the first European Ops Mid-Cycle event in Manchester a few weeks ago? We also regularly extend passes to user group leaders and ambassadors. And of course speakers also receive a free code, and user stories and experiences have a better chance of being accepted there.
Overall, we’ve worked hard to keep the OpenStack Summit ticket prices affordable and competitive by subsidizing our cost per attendee with sponsorships and running the Summits without a profit. The conference portion is four days including training and workshops starting at $600 USD (+discounts for students / government). That is on the low end of pricing compared to other industry and open source community events, for example OSCON badges range from $1,395 to $3,495 and LinuxCon is $800 for early tickets. We pack a lot into one week, including meals and workshops (and even more hands-on training coming in Austin) but have subsidized the costs to make it as accessible as possible and help grow the community.
I’m a bit concerned with your perception that applying for travel support has a negative connotation or feels like begging. The program was designed to sponsor and recognize contributors of all kinds in the community, and we’ve doubled our investment in 2016. Even if we cannot cover full travel costs for everyone who applies, we have been able to offer free registration for most qualifying applicants.
Do you think the plan for ops recognition to be administered by the User Committee would be a positive step?
Best, Lauren
On Feb 29, 2016, at 11:57 AM, Marton Kiss <marton.kiss@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pierre,
I can agree with you that ops people would receive a similar recognition to ATC. I think the proper forum is the operators community, they need to lobby as a group at the Foundation, or propose a program to make it happen. We love OpenStack too, but if you're doing it for a while, you know that it have all the processes and politics inside to move forward different important cases, and you can believe me everyone is really committed here.
I'm not sure this can happen for Austin due to short timeframe, but if you help to reach out the key influencers in the operators community, and support them writing the program, this can be a reality for Barcelona Summit.
Brgds, Marton Kiss OpenStack Ambassador
On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Christian Berendt <christian@berendt.io> wrote: Hello Pierre.
On 02/18/2016 06:32 PM, Pierre Freund wrote:
"We are OpenStack", but you know what, I don't really feel to be part of this "We". And I think I'm not the only ops folks feeling this.
I think a lot of people feel like you.
At the last summit, I went to the ambassador's session to speak about this. My point was that people spending time for the community should have an easier access to the summit by giving them "Active Community Contributors" Pass. The only answer I had was "If you can't afford the ticket, use the travel program".
The Osops project should make it easier for ops to receive a summit ticket.
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Osops
Then, I went to the "feedback session" of the summit, and said that I was really involved in OpenStack, and I deserved an "Active Ops Contributor" badge. Everybody agreed. The ATC program is B.R.O.K.E.N.
Confirmed.
My only solution? Make a bullshit commit, correct something in the docs, correct a typo in a comment… not very interesting. Here is one of my $1200 single character commit: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/20076/ . And this makes me an "Active Contributor" for two summits??
Every commit is important, documentation commits are important. A commit has not to be interessting. Please do not grade down simple commits. Every single commit improves the overall quality of OpenStack.
And what about people helping local user groups?
They should be honrored and supported. It is a shame that the foundation has more than 20 million US Dollars for 2016 and a single user group (independent of there size) only receives 500 US Dollars / year to support celebration activities. Ambassadors spend a lot of time, they have to travel, the receive nothing. Ambassadors are not hired by the foundation, we are even not allowed to use official @openstack.org mail addresses. User group organizers are not supported, ...
Christian.
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
On 2016-03-03 01:07:15 +1100 (+1100), Tristan Goode wrote: [...]
It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution.
I feel somewhat similarly. To me the free passes for developers has been primarily because we're using the same venue for the design summit as the conference, and want to make sure we increase the number of developers participating in the design sessions by lowering the cost for them as much as possible. Most of the developers I know don't actually attend the conference talks unless they're speakers/panelists, skip the keynotes because there's more productive things to get done during those times (they're recorded so you can watch them later after all) and view the expo hall as more of a curiosity than anything. With the proposed event split, it seems like it might be possible to explore other ways of improving/subsidizing our contributor community once its primary gathering is no longer conflated with an industry conference. -- Jeremy Stanley
On 02/03/16 21:20, "Jeremy Stanley" <fungi@yuggoth.org> wrote:
On 2016-03-03 01:07:15 +1100 (+1100), Tristan Goode wrote: [...]
It would be better to remove ALL the free passes and use the money charged to expand the travel support program. That way the free passes could go to those that apply for them demonstrating in their application that they are a contributor, with no boundary on the definition of contribution.
I feel somewhat similarly. To me the free passes for developers has been primarily because we're using the same venue for the design summit as the conference, and want to make sure we increase the number of developers participating in the design sessions by lowering the cost for them as much as possible. Most of the developers I know don't actually attend the conference talks unless they're speakers/panelists, skip the keynotes because there's more productive things to get done during those times (they're recorded so you can watch them later after all) and view the expo hall as more of a curiosity than anything.
With the proposed event split, it seems like it might be possible to explore other ways of improving/subsidizing our contributor community once its primary gathering is no longer conflated with an industry conference.
This may also bring more emphasis on the people who are sharing experiences at the summit. User group representatives, people with talks approved, ops session moderators, cloud consumers … Tim
-- Jeremy Stanley
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
On 03/02/2016 06:07 AM, Tristan Goode wrote:
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others.
The free pass has always been intended for people who contribute to the *design* of OpenStack, people who do things in whatever form. It is a consequence of one of the 4 opens of OpenStack (open design, to be precise). The only reason why a git commit was picked as a criteria to identify such set of people was because git provides an objective way to identify a person, their contribution and a precise time of such contribution. Nobody has contributed another or a better objective criteria. That's it. Let's discuss other objective criteria instead of repeating the same old complaints. /stef
-----Original Message----- From: Stefano Maffulli [mailto:stefano@openstack.org] Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2016 7:37 AM To: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
On 03/02/2016 06:07 AM, Tristan Goode wrote:
The summit free pass thing has always been non-inclusive by setting just one type of contributor above all others.
The free pass has always been intended for people who contribute to the *design* of OpenStack, people who do things in whatever form. It is a consequence of one of the 4 opens of OpenStack (open design, to be precise).
The only reason why a git commit was picked as a criteria to identify such set of people was because git provides an objective way to identify a
And there lies the problem. That old time developer centric mentality that aggressively excludes the wonderful rest of OpenStack. person,
their contribution and a precise time of such contribution.
Nobody has contributed another or a better objective criteria. That's it. Let's discuss other objective criteria instead of repeating the same old complaints.
/stef
_______________________________________________ Community mailing list Community@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/community
On 3/2/16 6:08 PM, Tristan Goode wrote:
And there lies the problem. That old time developer centric mentality that aggressively excludes the wonderful rest of OpenStack.
Something that bothers me about this conversation, is this: How many of us have actually Installed/Deployed OpenStack. I'm not saying DEVstack, but true OpenStack. If you have, you know you're a developer. You write code to keep the thing alive and working for your customers. We should grow up and admit publicly that, yes operators may be looking through a different paradigm, but everyone who touches OpenStack on any level is a Developer. -- Best Regards, JJ Asghar c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
but everyone who touches OpenStack on any level is a Developer.
Say that to the security at the entrance to the Dev lounge at a summit ;) *Kavit Munshi* *Aptira - Asia Pacific’s leading provider of OpenStack* Direct/mobile: +91 971 292 9850 General enquiries: +61 2 8030 2333 Australia toll free: 1800 APTIRA Website aptira.com Twitter @aptira <https://twitter.com/aptira> On 3 March 2016 at 05:42, JJ Asghar <jj@chef.io> wrote:
And there lies the problem. That old time developer centric mentality
On 3/2/16 6:08 PM, Tristan Goode wrote: that
aggressively excludes the wonderful rest of OpenStack.
Something that bothers me about this conversation, is this: How many of us have actually Installed/Deployed OpenStack. I'm not saying DEVstack, but true OpenStack.
If you have, you know you're a developer. You write code to keep the thing alive and working for your customers.
We should grow up and admit publicly that, yes operators may be looking through a different paradigm, but everyone who touches OpenStack on any level is a Developer.
-- Best Regards, JJ Asghar c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
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On 03/02/2016 05:09 PM, Kavit Munshi wrote:
Say that to the security at the entrance to the Dev lounge at a summit ;)
How can a *current* board member who goes to summits and talks to Foundation staff regularly write something inflammatory and imprecise like that? What are you trying to achieve? The guards are not supposed to turn around anybody from entering the Design area. If you're referring to the incident in Hong Kong, you could have asked anyone at the Foundation who would have explained (again) it was an honest mistake that has been fixed: instructions were misinterpreted by the security and that's the end of it. The *Design* area has been open to anybody _willing_to_contribute_ to the design sessions, even if they have no ATC sticker on the badge. If you are aware of people willing to contribute being turned away from places where they could have contributed, that's a bug and you should report it properly. No silly jokes: you're a board member and these are serious issues. /stef
On 03/02/2016 04:08 PM, Tristan Goode wrote:
And there lies the problem. That old time developer centric mentality that aggressively excludes the wonderful rest of OpenStack.
This is BS Tristan! I would expect more from a former board member. Since very early in OpenStack, and at least from when I came on board (during Diablo cycle) contributions to documentation have been considered at the same level of code contributions. You don't need to be a developer to write documentation, and contributions to manuals grant ATC status. Same goes for translations, where members of l10n team get a free ATC invite. Operators have received free ATC codes too... I am left to think that you're insisting on propagating a lie about a non-existent "developer centric mentality" or you're ignorant on OpenStack community practice. Neither of which is a good scenario from a community leader. And you're still not providing any help in addressing the issue: there are objective, *practical* obstacles to provide ATC tickets for anybody outside of git. Last time I checked, there was no way to pull the list of active translators; but now that the community migrated off of transifex, it should be doable... Do you volunteer, since you care so much about this issue? Or provide at least some ideas on how to objectively recognize contributions from others, outside of git. More doing, less venting, please. /stef
-----Original Message----- From: Stefano Maffulli [mailto:stefano@openstack.org] Sent: Friday, 4 March 2016 4:38 AM To: community@lists.openstack.org Subject: Re: [openstack-community] We are OpenStack, but who is We?
On 03/02/2016 04:08 PM, Tristan Goode wrote:
And there lies the problem. That old time developer centric mentality that aggressively excludes the wonderful rest of OpenStack.
This is BS Tristan! I would expect more from a former board member.
Since very early in OpenStack, and at least from when I came on board (during Diablo cycle) contributions to documentation have been considered at the same level of code contributions. You don't need to be a developer to write documentation, and contributions to manuals grant ATC status. Same goes for translations, where members of l10n team get a free ATC invite. Operators have received free ATC codes too...
I am left to think that you're insisting on propagating a lie about a non- existent "developer centric mentality" or you're ignorant on OpenStack community practice. Neither of which is a good scenario from a community leader.
And you're still not providing any help in addressing the issue: there are objective, *practical* obstacles to provide ATC tickets for anybody outside of git.
Last time I checked, there was no way to pull the list of active
I'm just suggesting that perhaps the whole system could be approached in another way. That defaulting to inclusion for anyone, and letting people apply for the free tickets might be a better way. What about a form with some checkboxes, say one for "I commit code" and if you check that box then it goes off and checks your git thingy. It has another check box for docs, it goes to check what it needs to for that. Automation and all that right? But most importantly, it has a free form text field that allows someone that doesn't "fit" to apply for a free ticket. That's "open". Be inclusive, don't predefine constraints that exclude contributions perhaps none of us have considered. BTW I wasn't propagating any lie about any broad developer centric mentality, but a few people still seem to have a developer centric mentality. As an example, I think the suggestion from a few developers to split the summit benefits a few developers to the detriment of the whole community. Cheers Tristan translators; but
now that the community migrated off of transifex, it should be doable...
Do you volunteer, since you care so much about this issue? Or provide at least some ideas on how to objectively recognize contributions from others, outside of git.
More doing, less venting, please.
/stef
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participants (11)
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Christian Berendt
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Edgar Magana
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Jeremy Stanley
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JJ Asghar
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Kavit Munshi
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Lauren Sell
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Marton Kiss
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Pierre Freund
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Stefano Maffulli
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Tim Bell
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Tristan Goode